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TV Program, Israel

Moderator: Our show today is a festive one—this week, from Sunday through Wednesday we had the seventh Kabbalah congress in Israel held at the Exhibition Gardens in Tel Aviv. Twenty-five hundred people representatives of about two million students worldwide, who are studying just like you through the television and Internet, came from all over the world. It was very, very moving.

Michael Laitman: Yes, it exceeded our expectations. People came from very far away. Their desire and great efforts worked in such a way that there was great bonding and things became clearer. In the end, we wanted to find out where we are headed, how we can aim ourselves towards new and corrected humanity, and how we can all unite.

People came from more than fifty countries,overcoming all the differences... We saw how easy being together was as if we did not feel that we were in Babylon, really all the languages, all the cultures and mentalities. People from different religions; you had everything there, they all were very different and yet all were as one.

Wesee that the world is becoming more and more prepared for bonding, discovering how helpless they are, how they’ve reached kind of a dead end. People are losing their families; it is as everything is over and you don’t know where you’ll find some kind of a solid basis to live for. Why suffer? Why live? You see all the catastrophes of nature and everything that’s happening, all the unknown. It’s better just to close my eyes, but how long can I do this, it’s not right for a person to live that way. That is what more and more people are asking, and that’s how they come together.

The wonder of it is that when these two thousand five hundred people come to the congress, one couldn’t feel the difference between them. People from South America and Chile, from Turkey, from United States, Canada, from Europe, from Africa, and from Eastern Europe—there are all the same people, with the same problems, same questions and really the same desire to know the meaning, the secret of life and what we are living for.

Question: I am an officer in the army. The state of Israel is facing another existential challenge against rootless enemies who have no limitations in what they choose. They sanctify death instead of sanctify life. How does Kabbalah relate to that, I would like to know?

M. Laitman: Meaning, how we should relate to our enemies? What to do with what we are facing right now?

Moderator: How does Kabbalah relate to the situation in general?

M. Laitman: We can’t resolve that situation; there is nothing we can do about it. This is what came to us from Above. On one hand, we need to fight for our boundaries, for our right to exist here as a State. On the other hand, we have to know that if we don’t improve ourselves as a Nation that is worthy of the Land of Israel, then we will have no right to exist here.

Moderator: What does it mean to improve ourselves as the people that are worthy of living here?

M. Laitman: We have to be a people of merit; we have to rise to the spiritual level of Israel, so we can exist here physically. That’s what Baal HaSulam told us and all the Kabbalists write it. We can see in the history, the minute we fell from brotherly love to unfounded hatred—in spirituality, internally—we were immediately thrown out into exile, physically.

And now again, we received the permission to enter the land of Israel, we’ve even been pushed to it through the Second World War and all the kinds of events that occurred before and afterwards. I experienced it myself when I came from Russia thirty five years ago. I’m saying, if we want to exist here physically, then we also have to follow the spiritual condition, we have to rise back from unfounded hatred to brotherly love.

Moderator: He said, “Our enemies sanctify death.”

M. Laitman: Yes, that’s how they are, that’s how they threaten us, and we have no choice. We won’t be able to survive in this way; we won’t be able to face them physically. Right now we are living here and can survive here still as long we have some kind of direction towards correction, towards our mission. But if we don’t do what we must—to be a light to the nations and correct ourselves and bring the rest of the world to correction, then why are we here?

Moderator: What do you mean we won’t be able to stand against them physically? Our army is very strong.

M. Laitman: Oh, not at all, we can’t.

Moderator: We’ve already had a few wars.

M. Laitman: No thanks to us. It was only because we have to be here and carry out our duty here, elevate ourselves to the level of the spiritual Land of Israel. And bring the whole world closer to it, so they come closer to correction, “For My house should be called the house of prayer to all the nations and all the nations shall flow into Me.”

Moderator: A while back I read about a research project trying to describe what would happen if a nuclear war would break out. They said that Israel would win. If a nuclear war would break out in a few years, say with Iran, then in Israel maybe a few hundred thousand will die, but Iran would be erased from the map. The idea is that by physical strength of our army, by the force of our knowledge that can develop sophisticated systems and through technological achievements, where we are a bit ahead of others, we’ll be able to survive. You don’t believe that?

M. Laitman: I don’t believe it and I know this will not be the case, because our neighbors are not alone. Thank God, in our world we have many enemies, and with such bombs and missiles that we don’t have. And they will try to help those who are near us. Besides, it’s just stupidity to think that we are saved by fighting with our own strength.

Moderator: But even when we talk about peace, we try to make peace and that too, doesn’t work.

M. Laitman: Of course it’s not working, we need to make peace, not with our enemies—they are just the messengers. Everything that exists in the world is just natural forces that are arranged towards Israel in such a way so Israel will achieve the state it must. In here, all the nations of the world and all the governments and all the ministers, “The hearts of ministers and kings is in the hand of God.” It’s all arranged towards us, to force us to do our task to be virtuous people, to bring the correction method to the world, called the wisdom of Kabbalah. And bring the whole world to correction, to adhesion with the Upper force, to elevate everyone, to bring us all to be as one.

Moderator: But what should one do if there is feeling, there is no one to talk on the other side?

M. Laitman: You don’t have to talk to the other side; the other side is operated from Above.

Moderator: So, who should you talk to and do what?

M. Laitman: Talk to ourselves only. We have to correct ourselves inwardly. If we are united, if we turn to correction of ourselves so we are all together, so we achieve brotherly love in order to advance and cling to the Upper force, that’s the end of our correction. At that moment, nature, meaning our neighbors too—the entire still, vegetative, animate and also humanity will shift towards us in the best possible way as it is written in Isaiah, he prophesized that “They shall carry us on their shoulders.”

Moderator: So, that’s the direction?

M. Laitman: That is the direction and the prophets are telling us what to do.

Question: I saw Rav Laitman meet with all kinds of public figures, including actors. My question is, “Why can’t we talk to the heads of our government?” Perhaps, after talking to you they’d be convinced to change a little of their perception. It can be very important for all of us.

M. Laitman: First of all, you need to know that the higher a person is, the less free he is in choosing his behavior and his decisions. He is in debt to thousands of things that hold him, to all countries and politics and they are not at all free, that’s one thing. Secondly, they can’t hear it; they have a very specific line of thought and they can’t do more than that.

I met with great people in a world, I tried to do it and I thought that perhaps, somehow, I could talk in a way that they could understand, but they can’t. They understand about the force of an army and the force of money. They don’t believe in anything more than these two forces. Not even in a force of a public. They know that with the army and with the money they’ll buy the public, too, and we see how they don’t care about the public.

So, there is no one to talk to really. On the contrary, even Kabbalah itself says, “Don’t go to them,” just as we said before, “The hearts of kings and ministers are in the hand of God.” If we, the people, change ourselves without the governments, without the ministries of education, for we see that their improvement and the revolutions that they do is all too just gain more and more money; if every person from Israel makes an internal spiritual revolution within ourselves, it will affect everything. Then the government, the ministries and our neighbors with their leaders, too, will all work to our benefit.

Question: You are saying, Kabbalah is not a religion, so, do tell me why are there so many people wearing Kippot (skullcaps) during the congress? Why are there so many people wearing Kippot in Bnei Baruch? Where can I find truth, clean from Kippot and religious lies? I demand secular light and justice, love and bonding. Religion is a lie; I want the light of truth and secular justice. Amen.

M. Laitman: First of all, I take religion differently than the way he thinks of religious people; it’s a culture of Israel. It’s been with us for two thousand years now. I don’t want to stay away from it. Why? To me the Kippa is a Jewish sign, Jewish culture and it’s very precious to me. The Jewish symbols are precious to me; I don’t hate them. Some of the religious people maybe using it to obtain all kinds of worldly rewards that is something different. But those means that they use still belong to both of us too. I don’t think that we can just toss it away. These means are important to us, they are our culture. We’ve been living with it for a long time. That’s why in Bnei Baruch we also follow it.

We are in favor of this culture, of this education. Not the religious education, as you think of it, which you hate, but Jewish with the things that have to do with warmth and love and to certain kind of conduct and habits; we want it to stay. So the fact that lately, in the last one hundred years or so a few people started using orthodox methods in the wrong way should not position us in a state of hatred to our basics. This is the cultural basics of the Nation of Israel. That keeps us as a nation, so we should respect it. Perhaps, I am not making myself clear enough.

Moderator: In his question he is mentioning a principle…

M. Laitman: Why Kippot? Why should I hate the Kippa, just because a few frauds are wearing Kippot too? I shouldn’t stop wearing it; if some people put on Teffilin (phylacteries) and then they are doing indecent things. Should I hate the Teffilin because of that? Your grandfather probably was religious, too, but you are not saying so about him. So, don’t judge according to the last fifty years and project it on our whole history and culture!

Moderator: Many people perceive religion as something that brought a lot of evil and suffering to the world and they stay away from it.

M. Laitman: The Jewish religion was never like that! It was always a basis of the nation, like a framework to the nation. The hatred of Jewish religion is especially here, in Israel, because they went into politics and sometimes they started to use it inappropriately. That’s true, but religion in general? You can’t relate it to our religion, we respect it, even I, it doesn’t matter that I am a Kabbalist and people think I am closer to the secular and not to the religious. No, I just think that this is the culture and we have to respect it and keep it and it will keep us too. It’s a way to live in the nation; it doesn’t mean you have to keep it, but to distinguish and not hate it.

Question: Is there really such a thing as magic on people? Does it really hurt them? Is it possible that a person doesn’t marry or that his way in love is difficult because he is under some spell?

M. Laitman: We are all connected by a network of forces, an internal one, just like Adam ha Rishon (the first man). Adam ha Rishon is a soul, a structure containing all the particular souls that are connected. And in that structure, we are connected and united, and in our world, too, at the level we exist in our world in our bodies, we are all connected. We are so connected that we don’t even understand how these forces go through us to everyone. It turns out that the seven billion people that exist, living in this world are connected in such a network of forces that connects them in every way.

So, I am affected by all the thoughts and all the desires in the world. However they change, I change and I can’t control it, I have no freedom here. So, if a lot of people are thinking bad thoughts about me, it will stop me and cause problems and vice versa. If people think good about me, I’ll succeed, because that way I am in a network of forces that affect me for better or for worse.

Moderator: So, what do you recommend to any specific person to do?

M. Laitman: Relate to others with love; it will break any hatred and any evil eye. It’s the simplest thing

Question: I have been listening to your lessons for at least two years now, first through the internet, now through the television. I enjoy it very much and learn a lot. I also hear other teachings that repeat themselves, like Scientology, Buddhism and even more rational theories like psychology, logo therapy and others.

What makes Kabbalah more genuine than all the others teachings? They tell about much of what I hear from you, annulling the ego and Love your friend as yourself. It’s a very common a concept in all of them.

M. Laitman: Of course, Kabbalah doesn’t say anything new; a person can come to it even without studying Kabbalah. In other words, it’s about how we are all connected, that we are included in the still, vegetative, animate and speaking—in all these levels. Baal HaSulam writes about human psychology, about materialistic psychology, which is an opening to the wisdom of Kabbalah.

Kabbalah really says nothing new except one thing: all of your knowledge won't help you. You approach these teachings that explain to you very rational and correct things. I am not going to argue what’s right and what’s not right and it does not really matter. What matters is what you do once you know that it is wrong, that our lives are wrong, that man is wrong, that the ego is to blame for all the problems in the world and that’s why we are suffering. What do you do with it? What do these teachings provide as a solution? Besides the wisdom of Kabbalah they all say, “Destroy the ego,” but that never succeeds.

Moderator: But you do say that ego is basis of all the ruin?

M. Laitman: Yes, but we are not ruining it, we are just changing how we use it. I elevate it, I bring it up to the top, but above the ego, I bring the goal. Why do I need to use it? The wisdom of Kabbalah is therefore called the wisdom of reception (Kabbalah). Besides the fact that Kabbalah means transfer or tradition, it also teaches us how to use our vessel of perception. Because in that ego we, eventually, receive the abundance of the Upper Force prepared for us. So the way to use it and the method of correction of the ego in the wisdom of Kabbalah, that’s what makes Kabbalah special, that’s what distinguishes between it and all the other teachings.

Moderator: Let’s summarize it. Let’s see if we got the answer.

M. Laitman: 1) You don’t need to ruin the ego, only use it correctly. That’s a big difference between Kabbalah and other teachings. 2) How to use the ego? Only through the Upper Force, that while studying Kabbalah you receive the Upper Force. It’s called the Light of the Torahreforms. Only through the wisdom of Kabbalah can we draw this Light, this force on ourselves, and then our ego becomes help against us. I can use it correctly and efficiently.

That's what distinguishes Kabbalah from other teachings. Before that, there are criticism, tests and all that—that’s wrong. The diagnosis is correct for everyone, but the difference is in healing. How you and I cure it—here is the difference.

Moderator: So how does Kabbalah cure it?

M. Laitman: Through the Upper Force called the Light that Reforms, which you receive only through the wisdom of Kabbalah. No other teachings, no other laws, not treatments of Torah, nothing. Only genuine Kabbalah books which are: The Book of Zohar, the writings of the ARI, and the writings of Baal HaSulam, only in them you have that special force to draw the Light on us that will correct our ego and teach us how to us it correctly.

Question: Michael Laitman said many times all kinds of things about the Kabbalah Center, holy water and all kinds of things and I have a question about it. It is known that there is Chinese researcher who discovered that through the thoughts and intentions we affect matter and create unity in water, which affects cells in our bodies, creating an awareness in the cells, in the water of the body, because the water communicates between each cell.

My question is what’s wrong about it? What’s wrong with taking water and aiming it in order to make your body to be aware of Ein Sof, of love, of Infinity and abundance? It seems like attacking the will to receive for itself on the bodily level, as well as the ongoing spiritual work; if we want just complete love, then why slander the other side?

M. Laitman: First of all, I speak disrespectfully of methods that say that in anything material, there are spiritual forces. Bowing before idols is called idolatry; it’s idolatry to think that in this water there is spiritual force. Perhaps, I can think correctly and right about this water and I give it to someone, and when he drinks it, besides the water he also receives my warmth and my love—that’s a human thing. We can, perhaps, test it but right now, I know, we can’t prove it with all respect to what the lady’s saying. So far we have not been able to prove it; it’s all just theories right now. But it’s possible.

I already said on this show that we are connected to each other in our thoughts, “good eye, bad eye.” We do affect each other in our thoughts and desires and we can think good about someone else and do good to that person. But it’s on the corporeal level, an animate level, about the person’s body, about what will happen to him in this life here and now.

But it’s not about correction of the soul. We don’t control the correction of the soul with our corporeal forces and we cannot pass them thorough water. It’s not in the water, or red string, or anything else! This is called idol worshiping to think that in corporeal things you have a spiritual force.

The holy ARI wrote about it, Baal HaSulam wrote about it, and the fact that these things are sold is only for making money. They also make other people happy by it. But how? Because they believe in it and through believing in something that I tell that person, “It’s going to help you!” he becomes certain now it’s going to help. He increases his internal confidence, it’s a psychological trick, so he feels better. But it’s psychological, it doesn’t correct his soul and it’s not a spiritual force that takes a person to the spiritual level.

So we have to distinguish between the psychological treatment and what the wisdom of Kabbalah gives us by the Light that Reforms, which comes only through studying from the genuine sources, through a special method, special order of studying and so on. You know there are certain “operations” that they do in the Philippines. They lay the person down and pretend to perform an operation, pretending to remove certain organs. The person goes home as if they are healthy. They had the whole research about it and films. It turns out that there is nothing more than psychological force but afterwards, people feel good.

It’s a force of the placebo effect. There is nothing in there, but we see that it’s working. You give it to a person and they feel healthier! Our psychology is very powerful and it helps us to bring out of ourselves new powers. But it works on the level of this world, and doesn’t correct our soul one bit.

Moderator: So, why you’re against it?

M. Laitman: I am not against it; just don’t be confused! Of course, I am not against it! I myself am a bio-cybernetist, which is my original profession. I learned medicine, engineering, psychology and physiology and I know it. I don’t have to believe you or not believe, but you have to distinguish between spirituality and what we use as a psychological means. Baal HaSulam writes about materialistic psychology and you can read about it; he respects it. These are our mental forces, forces of our animate soul. There are vital forces we have inside and it helps us live and survive.

But you have to distinguish between that and the spiritual eternal force of men’s soul, which is from God above. It can be cultivated in us only through the Upper Light, which we draw from Above. And then we grow spiritually, not corporeally here in this life, just by improving things. Look what they are selling along with it, with the “holy water” and the red strings? How to succeed in sex? Do I need any sanctity for that, a spiritual force? I am just speechless.

Question: What should one do if he doesn't feel an ability that he can bond and connect to people in order to keep the Arvut (mutual guarantee) and to unite with the Creator?

M. Laitman: There is a big difference where the person is. I have friends, students in Alaska or Australia, in New Zealand.

Moderator: I have a feeling he’s talking about someone who is close, but doesn't feel that he can.

M. Laitman: Yes, mentally he can’t come and connect; there are many like that. I know people who have been studying for years in hiding, they don't even tell me about it. As opposed to every morning or evening, when I go somewhere I meet people who tell me, “Yes, I watched you on television today at 4:00 am. What are you doing here?” It's very nice, I’m very happy about it. At the same time, I don't know them and they don't tell me anything about themselves and, really, I don't mind.

But the question this person is asking, who is studying with us is: where will he take the strength for true internal spiritual progress besides the studying that he performs? He studies what needs to be done, how the spiritual worlds are built, how his soul is built. That's all fine; that's knowledge. But how’s he going to carry it out?

The wisdom of Kabbalah is a practical method; it's about how you, from this initial desire that you have, the point in the heart, how you elevate yourself higher and higher towards the spiritual force, the Creator. That point should be inflated and in it, you should feel your spiritual world, because it's part of God above, so you want to increase it as much as possible.

How can it grow? Through the Light that I draw. How do I draw the Light? Only by acting in a group; it was written by many Kabbalists, and they all had groups of students. And these groups had to keep the love of friends among them and all the conditions in order to draw the Light. Because Light doesn't come to one person; it comes to a Miniyan (ten people)—it's the concept of the group.

If our friend wants to progress in spirituality, to feel the spiritual world, he won't have a choice. He'll have to break, overcome his rejection from bonding and come to us at one point. If he is from Jerusalem, we also have a group in Jerusalem and he can start there. But to some extent he'll have to know us better and be with us in some of our activities and bonding. As a result, he will feel that what we have, passes onto him.We have something to share.

Moderator: I feel that this guy's writing out of some true distress that he feels. Meaning, he has already heard about this advice of Kabbalists to join friends, but it's hard for him. That's the way I feel it; it's very difficult for him. Can you give him a tip?

M. Laitman: There are a great many like that. I know it's a very, very common phenomenon.

Moderator: What should he do?

M. Laitman: Speaking of a new generation, it is difficult for a young guy to go out, to cross the street and come in here, because he’s used to living through the Internet and not to come out physically of this shell and simply present himself. They can't and I don't know what to do with it. He should probably go through another internal barrier, saying, ‘There is no choice; I have to go in.’ Perhaps, it's also up to us, not just him. Perhaps, we can't express ourselves really well and come down closer to each person. I'm not blaming him; I'm blaming us, too.

Moderator: It's not a question of who’s to blame. I'm asking to get some advice from you, maybe some bypass. What should I do so my heart would soften a bit and open and I would be able to make this step?”

M. Laitman: I would recommend coming to my lectures on Tuesdays and Fridays at Beit Kabbalah La Am. He doesn't have to identify himself, to present himself, to say who he is. Everyone can walk in free; no one's asking anything of another and no one is going to ask him, “Who are you? Where are you from? You know, fill out a form,” whatever. He can walk in, even in the middle, and leave in the middle.

Maybe in this way he can see that it is something that he can come closer and can digest it. And somehow suddenly he'll feel that from this kind of introduction, even if it's momentarily, simply everything he's learned will suddenly acquire a new form in him. Because that's what normally happens after a person accumulates a lot of information and internal impressions and enters that place, everything falls into the new pattern and it helps him qualitatively, in a new way to relate to his way in life.

Question: When the body dies, do you feel any other reality until the next life?

M. Laitman: Depends on a person’s state before he passed away. If a person hasn't achieved anything in his previous life, then he has to reincarnate. Then in between lives he is like a point, a drop of semen. What does semen feel? Nothing. Those who did achieve through the study of the wisdom of Kabbalah and used it correctly, who acquired the volume from the drop that received from the point in a heart, those who found the place in their souls for the entrance of the Light, that place with a portion of the Kli (vessel) and the Light remains after death too. It remains until it’s dressing in a new body and continues from that level that he received before. And so it is from life to life. The only thing that exists and remains in a person after his life is what he corrected in his soul and method of correction is here.So, you're invited.

Question: Concerning the affliction of Divinity, should I think that the Creator is crying and feels sorry? Can nature cry? And whydoes He cry if everything is predetermined? How it's going to help if we think that He is crying? Should we feel guilty? Sounds more like religion than science.

M. Laitman: That’s right and it says about that “TheTorah speaks in language of people.” The Creator is the law of nature, “For I Am the Lord I change not,” “He is good to the righteous and to the wicked.” The Upper Light is in complete rest, and eternity cannot change. The Whole and the Absolute cannot change, cannot cry or regret; we just use that language.

It is because we ascribe our understanding, our perception to Him, to the Upper spiritual force. He is nature; RAMBAM, Baal HaSulam, the other Kabbalists such as Vilna Gaon, all write that the Creator is the common law of reality.

And how do I receive it? To the extent that I can be like Him, I can feel Him, understand Him and perceive Him. So, it depends on how I resemble myself to Him. That's why it says Bo Re’eh (come and see). You can't define Him, you can never relate to anything defined that it's Him. That is something that I build out of my own corrected qualities. Bo—come, do it, and Re’eh—see; this is your Creator. In every state you will have a different Creator, a greater and greater Creator, to the extent that you grow in spirituality you’ll have a greater Creator. Perhaps, it sounds like a denial of Divinity, but that is what Kabbalists tell us.

Baal HaSulam writes that the nature, that to keep laws of nature and the Mitzvot (commandments) of the Creator are the same thing, because Elokim (God) in Gematria is nature. There is no difference, it doesn't matter what you call Him, only we make that distinction. Scientists call nature ‘nature’ and we call the same laws ‘the Creator's commandments.’ And in truth, it doesn't matter what you call it. The behavior of these laws is the same, because they’re laws. That's why in Kabbalah we study laws. For example; the laws that affect us and what is the best and the most efficient way for us to use them like physics.

The more I know the forces that are acting in our world, the more I can use them to my benefit. The more I study Kabbalah, the more I can use the spiritual forces. To the point that Baal HaSulam says a shocking thing; he says, “Just like a person can't live in this world without knowing the rules of this world, so man’s soul cannot exist in a spiritual world without knowing the laws of the spiritual world.” And the law of the spiritual world is the wisdom of Kabbalah.

Once we leave this world, if we haven't studied the spiritual laws, there is no way for us to go. We can't survive in a spiritual world, just like we couldn't survive in this world if we didn't know the rules of this world. That's why we have to study the wisdom of Kabbalah and that's what he's saying.

Moderator: You're talking about having to study so that something will happen after I die? Because there are people that are not really bothered by it right now.

M. Laitman: Correct, but look what Baal HaSulam writes besides that, in the Introduction to the Fruit of Wisdom, page 266.

It is known from books and authors that the study of wisdom of Kabbalah is an absolute necessity for any person from Israel. And even if one learned the whole Torahand was proficient in Mishna and Gmarrah and is very virtuous, more than all of his contemporaries but did not learn Kabbalah, he must still reincarnate and come into this world again to study the secrets of the Torah and the wisdom of truth.

M. Laitman: Because he did nothing, actually.He was righteous in this world and he was filled with Mitzvot and good deeds and he taught his contemporaries how to do these things here, in this world. It’s okay, but he didn't correct his soul because he didn't study Kabbalah. He has to come back and start from scratch.

Moderator: Yes but maybe there is something I'm not getting here, maybe you can explain it a little differently. You're talking about physics, as it teaches the laws of this world and you can't survive in this world without knowing gravity...

M. Laitman: It's the same; the exact same thing because the spiritual world he is a little higher and acts on the physics of this world and on us.

Moderator: But previously, you said that if I don't know the rules of the spiritual world, my soul will not be able to survive when I leave this world and go to the spiritual world.

M. Laitman: Yes, because the question was about what happens.

Moderator: I'm asking about Kabbalah, is it something that I need because my soul will not survive when I die?

M. Laitman: No, of course not; I can be awarded all these worlds while living here, in this world and I won't need to feel that I'm alive or dead. I enter the spiritual world and then I don't feel the physical life of death. The body can die; so it's just like cutting off my hair. Do I have regrets? Does it hurt me? No; I'm alive, the body is alive but the hair is vegetative. So, when I cut off something, as a plant, it doesn't hurt me because it's a lesser degree. If I rise from the animate level to the speaking level—the soul, then when the body dies, I don't feel it, I don't regret it, I just get rid of it as if it's cutting off my hair.

Moderator: I have another question about physics. When we discover things in physics, chemistry and biology, etc., what we normally discover in science is used for developing more advanced technologies that allow us to invent better and more efficient instruments, to use the resources. It's pretty clear what I get out of discovering it is, that each discovery ends up in a better quality of life. When you're saying Kabbalah too reveals natural laws, what will I get out of it? Better instruments? More advanced cars, cleaner air? What?

M. Laitman: First of all, you correct your soul according to the spiritual nature. When you are in balance with a general nature or God, then you're affected by the forces, the laws in a friendly, positive manner. Because you're balanced with them, you're not in contradiction of form to them and you're equivalent to them in form.

Moderator: What is the equivalence over contradiction?

M. Laitman: Contradiction means you're an egoist, and these forces are giving and loving. And you want only to grab and receive and profit, that is why we are in contrast to nature. But if we correct ourselves through Kabbalah, through the Light that Reforms (Kabbalah is just the means, to bring, to draw the Light that Reforms) then we come to a balance with nature, so from nature we feel all the forces that affect us positively. Not because nature will change, God is an absolute, He doesn't change; I change myself and then I feel these forces as positive towards me.

Moderator: What do I get out of it?

M. Laitman: I feel abundance. I feel, while being in this world that I’m eternal and perfect and in balance with nature. I just feel eternal, filled with knowledge, happiness, health, everything, in this world, too. We can and must achieve in this world the life of the next world.

Moderator: You talked about eternity and perfection. I’ve heard from many people that they don't understand these two words. What does that mean ‘eternity’ and ‘perfection’?

M. Laitman: ‘Eternal’ means beyond time, place and motion.That’s even more abstruse.

Moderator: Now, I'm just trying to ask humorously, where is ‘above time, space and motion’?

M. Laitman: Within me, I feel that I am eternal. And besides, I’m happy all the time, because if I'm eternal but I'm suffering, G-d forbid.

Along comes a sensation of joy, inflation and eternity—everything is good and that's why it says that Creator is benevolent.

Moderator: Thank you, Michael Laitman. Until next time.